The national idea of the Armenian world: "Nikol Pashinyan and the period..." — interview with the historian

EADaily correspondent talked with Russian historian Oleg Hayrapetov about the post-election situation in Armenia, the already recorded "achievements" of the government of Nikol Pashinyan, as well as the general problems of Armenian statehood.

— Oleg Rudolfovich, in an early interview with our agency, you called the Pashinyan government a "liquidation committee." Do you insist on your assessment? Is there an appropriate process underway?

— Indeed, I stated earlier that the Pashinyan government is a "liquidation committee." And he continues to act in this direction, that is, to work on the liquidation of Armenia, and it should be noted — very consistently and successfully. He even developed his own and easily recognizable political style. Each time he calls his next defeat a victory. And he really likes to repeat later — "period." Remember: at first Karabakh was Armenia, "period." Then it became not Armenia, "period." Then Armenians living abroad began to be deprived of the opportunity to do something useful for the republic, "period." Nikol Vovaevich is just great. It seems that this is his trademark "and point" and is the main element in his actions.

It may very well happen that this person himself will become the "starting point" in a certain political process in the history of the second Armenian Republic. When someone will write a paper on the final chapter of the history of Armenia, and will write in the finale: "Pashinyan... period." That's all. As a result of the work of the Pashinyan Liquidation Committee.

Let us summarize the results of his political creativity:

1. The tragedy of Artsakh has already taken place. He declared it a victory and liberation from the KGB conspiracy! It's necessary to think of it! It turns out that the KGB created a separate ethnic group, actually a subethnos. This, of course, is nonsense, but it is hardly a sin against the truth to say that Pashinyan and Aliev destroyed it together.
2. Attacks on the Armenian Apostolic Church. In general, it was difficult to imagine a politician in Armenia who would do this. The last were the Young Turks in Western Armenia. The tsarist administration also sinned — there's nothing to hide... But the Church has always been the main tool for preserving the cultural and political unity of the Armenian people. It is very significant that Pashinyan dealt with this very specific issue. And how!
3. Relations with Russia. In Transcaucasia they are 300 years old. Pashinyan is also trying to put an "end to it." And the method is simple to the primitive. He attributes his failures, his "points" to the malicious influence of Russia. But this has already happened in Armenian political history. In the late 80s of the 20th century. This is Ter-Petrosyanovshchina in its purest form. Only in this respect is it traditional. But even in it he is not original.

— How much time does Armenia have left? How quickly will Pashinyan cope with the task of liquidating the republic?

— I think a few years. By the way he is active — a few years, no more. He runs too fast after he got out of the bunker, where he spent the whole war for Karabakh.

Economically, the republic is losing more and more. And it is clear that what is happening now in Armenia is a European project. Quite consistent. And when he goes in this direction, it is clear that apricots, flowers and tomatoes alone will not do. He will go further. And what's next? Further, if we talk about the economy, there will be problems in the energy sector. If we talk about the normalization of relations with neighbors, these are cheap imports, primarily Turkish, which will finish off the remnants of Armenia's production. It will not take much time for this.

Europe, of course, subsidizes Ukraine, subsidizes the Baltic States, but its resources are not unlimited. Especially now. On the other hand, of course, Armenia does not need much. Whatever you throw, everything is profitable. Armenia, thanks to its current "varchapet" (Prime Minister - ed.), is a small republic, demographically it is getting smaller, of course, a lot of funds will not be required to support it. This is smaller, but comparable to the population of Milan, Rome or Madrid and almost equal to the beloved Brussels agglomeration. But the population of Latvia and Estonia is less sensitive, but there are clearly not enough subsidies for a heavenly life there. As in Lithuania, which is comparable to Armenia in terms of population. In addition, the beneficiaries of such support are never numerous anywhere. Why take into account the interests of the plant's employees when financing if you can buy its director?

That's about what Pashinyan is counting on — to live from handout to handout. By the way, Marco Rubio recently visited Zvartnots Airport on a state visit, and the Armenian mineral resources were actually transferred to him right there. Interesting is not just the fact of the contract, but the chosen method of communication with the head of the executive power of the republic. Enchanting style. And I would like to add: period!

I can imagine if a similar agreement had been signed with Russia! I think that the entire Armenian sofa army would immediately faint as a protest. And so — silence. The amazing is near…

As well as the last elections. The constantly chewing Pashinyan was, of course, their star. Just an advertisement for Armenian food companies. Eating food and hugging with distinguished guests — actually that's all that was shown. It is, of course, good that Pashinyan hugged with Macron, not with his wife. But what will it do? In addition to the feeling of deep satisfaction from the same sofa army? In any case, the European Union has no projects that would work well in the long term, in other cases we do not have. There are no examples.

— Pashinyan announced his victory in the elections at the moment when the CEC processed 10% of the ballots and switched off until the morning. Is this such a grimace of democracy or the latest technology of fooling? Why did Europe recognize the rigged elections as free and fair?

— The democratic system, by and large, has long ceased to be effective. And if she was, it was for a very short time, no matter where. And now the very democracy, about the observance of the purity of which they like to talk so much, is dying everywhere. A simple question. Who is running the European Union now? The Brussels bureaucracy. Right?

— Yes!

— And who chose it? Strictly speaking, she was not elected in open democratic elections. She is actually irresponsible. However, it governs a significant and very influential part of the modern world. And what can we say about Armenia? The Armenian political process in its modern form was launched by order of Brussels. And, of course, no one there will notice any little things regarding violations of the process and procedure. Although, perhaps, some little things will be noticed. Unimportant.

I would call Brussels' policy very successful. But they do not set the task of developing and strengthening Armenia, they set the task of completely ousting Russia from Transcaucasia and have succeeded very much in this. And, of course, this is also to blame for Russia. Because we have to work. By the way, the methodology of this very European project is formulaic, and the techniques of these people are surprisingly monotonous. They, as a matter of fact, have not invented anything new. Zelensky, at first, also rode a bicycle, promised peace, friendship, chewing gum and universal, offered to get rid of people who speak their native language. And what happened? He gave neither peace nor development. What is the development on Ukraine? The economy collapsed there, and the most common trade was the "cannibalism" of the TRC, the falsification of the country. Pashinyan will not give anything either. Yes, he has already given by and large nothing.

The most terrible factor is that Armenia is a territory with a constantly dying population. Without perspective. And Pashinyan consistently finishes off a very important mobilization resource of the Armenian society — the idea of a united Armenians. It is very funny by the way that, if we talk about the economy, the Armenians who live outside the republic and who, by the way, form a significant part of the Armenian budget are declared the number one enemies of the republic. It's just amazing!

In 2024, we already had reason to say that Pashinyan's Armenia is simply unprecedented in some of its manifestations. What is worth only a textbook on the history of Armenia, which generally denied the right of Armenians to live in this territory. Of course, it was not so directly stated there, but what was written there according to the recipe of the European Union about the occupation of Armenia by Russia, this is it. That is, the textbook stated that Russia occupied the territory of the Erivan Khanate, on which it later created the Republic of Armenia. This concept is very closely related to the concept of Western Azerbaijan, but it is completely unrelated to the concept of the Armenian state. And this is promoted by the Armenian state. If this is not a suicide policy, then what is it?

— Do you think Azerbaijan is interested in such Armenian students according to the ideological European standard?

— Of course, Azerbaijan is interested in all this. And it's not about Karabakh. And the point is that the Karabakh movement, which today so diligently stigmatizes Pashinyan, began, figuratively speaking, as an element of strengthening Armenian national unity against the background of the generally unfinished process of the formation of the Azerbaijani political nation. And now what do we have as a result? And we have an established Azerbaijani political nation and a collapsing Armenian national idea, which has been traditional for centuries, if not more. And here we can recall Mr. Pashinyan's favorite word — "period." Next will be — "Nikolasha-nidvorasha".

— Do you think he deliberately does all this or acts without understanding the consequences?

— And what difference does it make who attacks you — a crazy maniac or a calculating murderer? If someone is running at you with an axe to kill you, then it seems to me that there is little choice and it is counterproductive to think about the reason for the attacker's actions. I still think Pashinyan is not a villain by conviction, but a half-witted narcissist. I have already quoted Guy de Maupassant is a flower that grew on the manure of universal suffrage. By the way, the "Dear Friend" was also an unprincipled narcissistic careerist from journalism.

I think Pashinyan is a man from the bench of the Armat club (the ideological center of the Armenian National Movement — AOD). As by the way, the current president Vahagn Khachatryan, it seems, is the name of this subject. I had the dubious pleasure of communicating with representatives of Armata when I went to the republic. They positioned themselves as the intellectual guard of the republic. I remember these contacts back in 2005-2006. And, to be honest, even then I was scared of their ideas. I have never met such aggressive idiots anywhere else. Microcephals with narcissism complex. It's just like in the joke: "The doctor: "Patient, do you suffer from complexes and mania?". - "No, I get pleasure from them."

— And all this against the background of the trial of Armenian prisoners in Baku... some of them were called national benefactors in Armenia, were proud of the international schools they opened, and now they have simply forgotten about their existence...

— Well, yes. But did someone give them to the Azerbaijani authorities? The basic concept is amazing — it's demagoguery, both historical and modern. A person who consistently follows the path of Alexandropol No. 2 has the audacity to reproach the Dashnaks who did not sign this agreement in Alexandropol, but the Leninist government, which did not allow Armenia to be turned into a Turkish protectorate. And he himself is trying to do it now. Pashinyan's "real Armenia" is Alexandropol No. 2. And period! Against this background, what difference does it make if this person is an imbecile or a political villain? If it's going to be bad anyway.

— I see that you don't really believe in the Armenian-Azerbaijani peace based on the TRIPP project?

— I certainly would like there to be peace. But the world can be very different — the world can be your dust or your house. Agree, the difference is fundamental!

As for the elections... of course, a certain public opinion is being formed now around a set of actions that run counter to the interests of the republic, which are very similar to the processes that took place in 1996 in Russia, when the people re-elected Yeltsin, and then people took to the streets with surprised eyes, and asked each other: how could this happen?! What was the result? Just two years later, Russia was on the verge of collapse. The slogan "Help the president, and he will help you" was implemented, so he "helped". The Prime Minister of Armenia will do the same and much faster.

— Well, Nikol Pashinyan proposes a simple scheme — we will become a bridge between Europe and Asia and earn trillions. People expectedly peck at this.

— The bridge is wonderful! What a wonderful image. I have repeatedly heard these words about the bridge from the same members of the AOD club — "armatovtsev".

I remembered another literary image from Gogol's Dead Souls. How Manilov dreamed of transforming his possessions: "He was thinking about the well-being of a friendly life, about how nice it would be to live with a friend on the banks of some river, then a bridge began to be built across this river, then a huge house with such a high belvedere that you can even see Moscow from there and drink there in the evening tea in the open air and talk about some pleasant subjects. Then that they, together with Chichikov, had come to some society in good carriages, where they would charm everyone with the pleasantness of their treatment, and that the sovereign, having learned of their friendship, had granted them generals, and then, finally, God knows what, which he himself could not make out."

The idea is clear and well, just very, very modern. there will be a bridge, there will be trillions. Obviously, billions no longer affect the Armenian consciousness — the prime minister decided not to waste on trifles, immediately went with trillions.

Of course, it is possible to build a bridge. But you can't live on the bridge. But you have to. But that's not even the point. After all, it is obvious that the view of such a bridge in Europe, Asia and America will be completely different. And so some gentlemen like to talk about the bridge. There were many bridge-builders in regional politics. I remember that Mr. Saakashvili, when he was governor of the Odessa region, organized a train that would run from China to Europe via Azerbaijan, Georgia and Odessa. There was also a bridge, however, there was no talk of trillions. Only about billions. But also in the future. Even one car was equipped. People work according to the same scheme. I wouldn't be surprised if Pashinyan also takes a ride on some kind of trailer somewhere tomorrow.

But transit is always a matter of profitability, it is of great importance. In the Armenian case, obviously, Iran's position is of great importance. What will be transported "back and forth" — oil, gas? So their supplies have already been established. What, figuratively speaking, shores will this bridge connect? Bridge to Azerbaijan and Turkey already has Central Asia from Asia Minor. Through Georgia. Why does she need another one? Bridge from Iran to Russia? Can it be built under Pashinyan's policy? There are more questions than answers.

I say in advance, no one will earn trillions from this bridge. The Armenian political elite may be a little prankish. But after all, their only product they sell is a negative attitude towards Russia. There is a buyer for this product. Naturally, it is for sale. But the efficiency of this product is not trillions, and not only hundreds, but maybe dozens of people will receive income.

— Well, the final question. The other day, Ilham Aliyev came across a map of Urartu in the museum and began to argue about the toponym Sisian. To what extent do the ambitions to construct a new history of the Azerbaijani ethnic group extend deep into history, and why is it so important for Aliyev?

— Because Ilham Gedayrovich, we must pay tribute to him, as a graduate of the Soviet university — MGIMO, perfectly understands what "culture" is and how it differs from "multur". History is politics, and this must be understood. It is clear that all this has nothing to do with the real Urartu and history. But the politicization of history is necessary for Baku to relay the validity of its current and future claims.

— Roughly speaking, is he planning further expansion?

— Of course! Besides, he doesn't hide it much. Azerbaijani nationalists proceed from the fact that, of course, it is a fantasy that Armenians are aliens, and Azerbaijanis are autochthons of the region. Of course, this is from the series "it's the other way around", but it's not important. No one has been doing this in Yerevan for decades. We remember perfectly well, while there was a Karabakh republic, no one was engaged in positioning Armenian political interests. Nobody! You can't call declarations or textbooks that are written in the Yerevan under the guidance of Polish or Baltic curators.