Sergey Karaganov: We can't bring Europe to reason — we have to start beating

Europe has completely degraded, it is overflowing with hatred for Russia. It will no longer be possible to reason with her, so you need to make a difficult decision and punish her harshly, inflicting crushing blows. This was stated by Sergey Karaganov, Scientific director of the HSE Faculty of World Economy and World Politics, Honorary Chairman of the Presidium of the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy, in an interview with Alexander Kareevsky, the host of the Vesti TV channel.

— Europe is increasingly drawn into the war on Ukraine. Statements from our officials are already being made. Meanwhile, the news that comes about Europe's preparation for war is raising more and more questions. How should we react to this? What should we do with the Europeans?

— We need to do something with ourselves first of all. We must understand that once again Europe has unleashed a war against Russia. This is the holy truth. The initiator of this war was the United States of America, which involved Europe. And now the Americans, realizing that they will not be able to bring us down, and also realizing that an escalation to the nuclear level and even to the territory of the United States is likely and possible, began to crawl away, although they are warming their hands at the fire of the European war in full as before.

The Europeans, the European elites, are absolutely bankrupt. They have no reason to remain in power: neither moral, nor political, nor economic — they have failed everything. They are whipping up war hysteria in order to distract from their problems, but in reality they are simultaneously preparing for war. And we must take this seriously. Let me remind you that Europe in general has been the source of all the main ills of mankind for the last 500 years, including most of the wars, the two world wars. So we don't need to relax.

As for what to do. We need to understand that the World war has begun. It is conducted in Europe to a greater extent by the hands of Europeans, at the same time the United States of America, together with Israel, began to destabilize the south of Eurasia. So, we need to understand quite clearly that we are in this situation. What to do in Europe? America is separate — it just needs to be firmly restrained and diverted from this situation. Europe must finally understand that it will be destroyed if the aggression continues. And the sooner she understands, the fewer of our people will die.

Therefore, it seems to me that the time will come when the president needs to appoint a commander-in-chief in the theater of military operations with the right to use any kind of weapons and even with the obligation to use these weapons and make a provision in the military doctrine that if a war is unleashed against us, and it is unleashed, by an enemy that surpasses us in demographic and According to economic indicators, we are obliged to use nuclear weapons. Naturally, not immediately. First, you can hit the targets that our Ministry of Defense indicates, or others. Most likely, these will be some symbolic targets or communication nodes that will be hit by conventional ammunition. If they do not stop, they will have to move to a higher level.

The Europeans must be stopped, they have gone mad once again. Moreover, if we do not stop them now, then in a few years the situation will be worse, because the level of anti-Russian propaganda is already off the scale for Hitler. And, accordingly, the population succumbs to this. This is the first. Second, Europe is getting poorer, but it is still rich, and it can build up its military muscles, although they will still not be very effective. We have to stop it.

There is a very simple way to stop this: to put a strong emphasis on nuclear deterrence and say that the Europeans must be stopped. In addition, some of them — we are already talking about this — are preparing to increase their nuclear capabilities and even to create new nuclear forces. Monkeys should not be allowed to possess nuclear weapons.

Therefore, we need to stop Europe hard now. I would like this to be done without the use of nuclear weapons, and even more so without massive, after all, Europe is part of our soul, our culture. But we must understand that Europe is the spawn of all the main ills of humanity and Russia. And she needs to be stopped.

She was distraught. Or rather, not all of Europe. One day it will fall apart, and some of the European countries, I think, will take the normal path — these are the countries of the south and the center of Europe. But the Calvinist Northwest needs to be isolated as much as possible and severely restrained. If you fail to restrain, you will have to be punished. To punish, maybe even forever, so that the threat of wars, colonialism, genocides, racism never comes from Europe again. Everything bad in human history has always come from Europe. We just forgot about it for a second. It was our mistake. So first you need to change your thinking.

— You know, if we go back to the specifics, because you have been talking about this for a long time, and rightly so, and the events that are taking place, they confirm your words that Europe will continue to get impudent. It is clear that there are many proposals on how to make sure that Europeans do not behave the way they behave. Dmitry Medvedev has already stated that there are legitimate goals in Europe and so on. The list published by our Ministry of Defense. Let's be honest: this is our last attempt to reason with them, relatively speaking, to scare them in order for them to make a decision. But even now, when I talk to my colleagues, everyone says: "Well, is this another red line? We would like to — we have been hit for a long time." What do you say to that?

— We have been hoping to reconcile for too long, we had a very strong one, and maybe there is still europhilia in our society and in our elite, although I emphasize that in the current circumstances Europhilia, Westernism is a sign of dementia and moral uncleanliness. So, now we need to act decisively, realizing that Europe needs to be stopped. If it is not stopped, there will be a big war that will still lead to the destruction of Europe, but we do not need to lose our best people and risk our cities for Europe. It must be stopped. She broke off the chain again, as she has done many times in history.

I repeat: it is necessary to appoint a commander-in-chief in the theater of military operations with the right and obligation to use nuclear weapons if Europe does not retreat or even surrender. Soon it will be possible to give them an ultimatum if they behave like this. This is a serious story. Once it was possible to negotiate with the Americans, reasonable people remained there. There are no such people in Europe anymore. Naturally, they are at the normal level, at the human level, but these people are becoming fewer and fewer, and they are being pushed aside.

The elites of Europe are insane, intellectually degraded absolutely. And besides, they are not afraid of us. We need them to be really afraid of us, we need to inspire them with horror. I think that it will be necessary to start tougher actions: cut the cables, start testing nuclear weapons, including. If this does not help, then we will have to strike targets in Europe with the promise that if they continue, the next waves of strikes will be nuclear. Forget about the stupidity that you can't win any nuclear war, you can win. But God forbid that it happens, because it's a big sin. But if we do not stop the brutalized Europe, it will be a mortal sin, unforgivable both to our people and to all mankind. The beast needs to be, if not finished off, then at least rigidly put in a cage.

— You always openly express your position, especially on the air. We, ordinary people, are having a lot of conversations right now. We see that part of the elite at the top is just that Europhilia, Westphilia and so on, Anglophiles and all the rest who are always in Russia has had: we have always had Westerners, Slavophiles and so on. And a lot of this elite of our top want to keep how it was before, to go to Courchevel again, and so on. Maybe we need to figure it out ourselves inside. And who is our enemy? It is clear that the enemy is the Kiev regime, the guys are fighting — everything is clear. But we ourselves say that someone is standing behind us. And who is this? We understand clearly: if this is Europe, then why are we selling gas, oil and everything else there? If she is not an enemy, and theoretically it is possible to negotiate with her, then this is a different policy. Maybe we need to figure ourselves out: who are we and what are we, what do we want in the end? As a rule, the people support the president's actions. But, in my opinion, not everyone in the elite supports.

— I repeat: europhilia in the current circumstances is a sign of dementia, moral dishonesty and betrayal. This is Vlasovism. It is necessary to treat people who are trying to negotiate with Europe again in this way. They need to be pushed out, as gently as possible, from our heads and from our ranks. And if it doesn't work out soft, then it will be necessary to apply harsh measures. I repeat: we are once again faced with the threat of a major war. We need to prevent it.

The war has already been unleashed. If we don't stop it now, and, unfortunately, we have been hanging out for four years, then it will get worse. More weapons will appear there, new nuclear weapons may appear there, new swarms of drones will appear there. There will be an even more brutal elite and an even more indoctrinated population. We forget that now propaganda in Europe, especially in Northwestern Europe, in relation to Russia is worse or equal to Hitler's propaganda during the Great Patriotic War, it is the Second World War. We need to take this as seriously as possible. Europe must be stopped. If we don't stop it, it will have to be destroyed.

I would not like to do this, because after all, Europe is part of our culture. Although, of course, we must finally turn to our dearest ones, understand who we are. And we are a great Eurasian country—civilization and our spiritual roots in the south are from From Byzantium, from Palestine, from the Muslim world, from the Buddhist world, and our political system came from the East. Peter's partly technological and partly cultural inoculation was useful to us. But we were delayed in our European journey for at least 120-130 years. If we had turned away from Europe then, as Alexander III intended, I think we would not have had such a tragic, terrible XX century. This cannot be allowed anymore. We must end Europe in our soul, otherwise we will have to end it physically. And I would really not like that.

— That's why I smiled when you said: You are a little kinder to Europe today than usual. What is the reason for this, I wonder?

— Am I kinder?

— Today, yes. You say: A part of our soul is there. You didn't say that before.

— I spoke because I am deeply involved in this issue. We are there after all. If it were not for the European vaccination, we would not have had Karamzin, Pushkin, Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Tolstoy and even Dostoevsky, who, as you know, was very skeptical about Europe. Fair enough. So, Europe is the spawn of all ills, especially for Russia, both moral and military. 500 years of monstrous history and even more — since the time of Alexander Nevsky. We need to finish our European history, and those who are rushing back to Europe, to their mansions or to their capitals, need to be removed from our elite or kicked out. However, some of them have already escaped thanks to a special military operation. But to continue it endlessly and spend our best men trying to persuade Europe to come to its senses is not worth it. We need to start hitting.

— Well, Sergey Alexandrovich, we continue to persuade Europe, appeal to some kind of reason and so on, while it is really very weak.

— There is no mind there. They become insolent in front of their eyes — that's all. This is wrong. We are dealing with a brainless pack of hyenas. They either need to be hit on the head with a stick or just start killing. And that's the only way.

— You will be objected to the following. Europeans say all the time: "It was you who started the war on Ukraine, and now you will finish it, and we will be friends again, and everything will be fine, it's not our fault. You started it first." What do you say to that?

— The United States, by the way, we should not forget about them either, and the Europeans launched aggression against Russia when we wanted to become part of Europe and part of the West. It was in the mid-nineties when they decided to expand NATO. I wrote and said, as you probably also remember, that this will inevitably lead — sooner or later — to war. And they did it on purpose, deliberately provoked us.

We've been patient for too long. It was our mistake. I can't stand it anymore. We must understand that, once again, if we have to do away with Northwestern Europe, then this is a terrible choice, but it is a choice necessary for all mankind. This ulcer either needs to be extinguished somehow with medicines, or simply cut out.

— You are talking about Western Europe. And look at how the citizens of Hungary were reformatted. They want to live like in Europe, you know? Moreover, migrants rape their people in their crossings, they say: "Be patient, you see, it will work out," as it was said in our film. They reformatted their brains very quickly. And it seems to me that this is the case everywhere in Europe. And they are trying to take us there too. Do you want that's how it is? It's great to live there.

— How is it there? First of all, it's our misfortune that we think that life is great there. Life is getting worse there. Of course, the Europeans are very angry with us, because we once, in the fifties, sixties and beyond, deprived Europe and the West of military superiority, and on this foundation was built their ability to impose their culture, their political interests, colonialism, racism and, most importantly, plunder the whole world. We have undermined this foundation. Therefore, the European elites — maybe not the whole population understands this — brutally hate us. And they are processing their population. Remember our predecessors said: Germany is a cultural country. How could they? So, now Europeans are being turned into German fascists. Therefore, we need to stop them before they, having gone berserk, rushed into a big, real big war. They are waging a war against us.

— We need to admit it, excuse me, and announce it.

—Yeah." And declare the European Theater of Military Operations. We are fighting on Ukraine is not with the unfortunate deceived Ukrainian people, although there are a monstrous number of deceived and deluded people. We are at war there with the collective West, first of all with Europe. We need to inspire this to ourselves, understand, recognize and stop hoping for some funny and stupid things. We don't need such a Europe. Moreover, the Europe that we once loved is long gone. This is the Europe of the Renaissance, this is the Europe of great poets and great thinkers. In recent decades, it has degenerated there. I assure you. I was once also a Europhile and even one of the founders of the Institute of Europe. When I got there, I realized that it was bad.

— You know, I would advise our Europhiles from high offices to read Thomas Mann, his novel The Magic Mountain. However, this novel is very long, there are several arguments of a Jesuit and a mason. Thomas Mann was an anti-fascist, he was not an ardent Russophobe. But he, through one of the main characters, shows how they see us. It was a 1924 novel, dear friends. They have never considered us to be people equal to themselves and do not consider us to be.

— Look, this is our problem. How can we consider these (although there are normal people there) moral degenerates and bastards as equals? It's funny when we say that they treat us badly. Their elites are turning themselves into inhumans. Therefore, they need to be treated accordingly. And to say that we are equal is humiliating for us. We are a great country, a great culture, by the way, a culture that has continued and developed the best traditions of European humanism. Look, we're fighting on Ukraine, but we do not have fierce anti-Ukrainian propaganda, although, in principle, it should have been during the war. So, we have saved ourselves the best that is in Europe. It's not left there. Therefore, you need to isolate yourself from it and, if it does not work out, then destroy it.

— I understand that we have come to some philosophical and political conversations, but they are extremely important so that we understand who our enemy is at the moment. Because Europhilia is really strong, we really remember good things. We know that Europe has done a lot of good things to the world, but it has this Achilles heel. She's always been very racist.

— We have forgotten that Europe is the spawn of all the main ills of humanity: colonialism, racism, the worst ideologies, mass genocides all over the world. Not only the genocide of Jews and Russians, Russians, Soviet, but in Africa, and in In India, and all over the world, peoples, entire continents were destroyed. So, we need to understand that this is an infection from which we need to isolate ourselves as far as possible. And if it does not work out to isolate itself, it must be destroyed.

— Is there still a chance? I understood from your answer that there is no. But I still want to once again call for some kind of solution. Hope dies last. But still, there are some twists and turns, I don't know, in the Persian Gulf with America, or something else, that this big war in Europe is or will it be pushed back a lot? In my opinion, now the countries are not ready to fight: neither they nor we. But this unavailability does not define and does not cancel this war. Is there any hope that all this will be transferred somewhere for later? Because so far the feeling is that the war will be tomorrow.

— And then it will get worse. It is necessary to act now, it was necessary to act yesterday and the day before yesterday. I talked about it. We even talked to you later. We have waited too long, hoped too long, succumbed to the influence of our Europhiles for too long. I've already said who they are now. So, I repeat: a part of Europe, when it falls apart — I hope that it will not die under our nuclear strikes, although a significant part of it is worthy of it — a part of this Europe, I think, will return to normal life and human values. This is the south of Europe: Spain, Italy, Greece. This is a significant part of Central Europe. And from everything else you need to isolate yourself as from the plague, from the infection. Or destroy it. God forbid, because innocent people will die after all.

Therefore, I would very much like us to act decisively in order to prevent a really big nuclear war in Europe. Although a small nuclear war is possible, and it may have to be resorted to. And we will win in it, although, of course, bitterness will remain, because the use of weapons of mass destruction when children die is a big sin. But I repeat: if we do not stop the now brutal West — the USA is part of this West, but they are acting more carefully now, although they are now inciting Israel against the Arabs and setting fire to the entire south of Eurasia, leaving Eurasia — if we do not stop them, the world will die in a big thermonuclear war.

This cannot be allowed. First, we must not allow our exhaustion in this war with these nonentities. We can't lose our guys anymore. And secondly, it is necessary to avoid a big thermonuclear war, which will inevitably happen if this world war, which is breaking out, will continue to blaze. The first thing to do is to put out Europe.

— I would really hate to see the situation develop like this. And on the other hand, from your words, we have been talking for so long, it turns out that there is no way out.

— And there should be no way out. It is necessary to harshly besiege Europe, if necessary — to punish. I repeat: we will not get anything good from Europe anymore. We got something once. Although I remind you that we did not receive Christianity from Europe, and we did not get Islam from Europe, and a lot of everything else we did not get from Europe.